Are XTR and X.0 Mountain Bike Components Really Worth It?
A reader of Mountain Biking by 198 sent me an email over the weekend that had a very simple question that plagues the minds of many riders out there as they put together their first high end mountain bike build.
I had a random question… i was in the market for a new bike. I have a Trek 8000. I wanted to go for FS and I was checking out the FS Santa Cruz Blur XC Carbon. Do you think XTR is worth the money or is XT the way to go?
The simple answer…NO! Yes, the latest and greatest from the top of the line components from SRAM and Shimano look incredible on the bike and gain you trail cred from riders who really don’t know what they are talking about, but in all reality…the comparable models from the XT and X.9 groupos perform just as well at a fraction of the price…even if they weigh just a few grams more.
In my opinion, it is much more beneficial to resist the urge to throw on that carbon caged rear derailleur and take that dollar savings (around 150 bones) and put it towards a higher quality wheelset build. Transferring this money in your bike build budget to your wheel build will have much more benefit riding than a cool carbon cage. I notice very little difference on the trail between X.0 and X.9 or XTR and XT, but I notice a HUGE difference on the trail between a budget wheel build and a medium to high end wheel build.
It amazes me all the time when I see fully kitted out riders sporting their high in rear derailleurs and really cheep wheels…sorry in advance if you are one of those riders…
When you have a budget that you are trying to keep during the build process, it is important to see the cost vs. benefit of each component you are planning on installing on your new ride. In some cases, you might not have a real choice as the bigger bike companies tend to pick the build for you. Even in that case, it might be better to step down one notch in the lineup and use that savings for wheels, gear, shoes, suspension upgrades, etc.
XTR and X.0 provide SRAM and Shimano with the necessary marketing push as they race to see who can produce the coolest new component. For the average rider, you are not going to notice the difference on the trail and the replacement cost is far too high. I have found that properly adjusting and maintaining your drivetrain will far out perform high end components.
So next time you are picking out your brand new bike build, think about where your money will be best spent and try to ignore the temptation to create trailside drool on your rear derailleur.
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Tags: mountain bike components, shimano xtr, sram x.0
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Thanks for this. I hope you have a lot of readers that really understand this. I built my Ellsworth Evolve, which is a pretty high-end frame, with X9 and my last ride was all X9. the wheelset is where you will realize your biggest gain in dropping weight. 100g of rolling wheel is much heavier than 80g of a rear derailleur!
Nice post!
Thanks Aaron. It surprises me when riders have RD’s that are more expensive than their entire wheelset. That money can be spent better in other areas of the bike
carbon derailluer on a mountain bike…bad idea. With less than 200 miles on a brand new truth I managed to get a small stick caught in the cage of my SRAM X.0. Shattered it. Replacement cost: $220. Picked up an X.9 for $61.00. As far as performance I can’t tell the difference except that it’s still in one piece.
I gave up the dream of a full top-spec bike many years ago, and I agree with you that the money can definitely be better spent elsewhere (wheels, tires, heck, even a better saddle), but I think that the one piece that is often worth is (for me, anyway) is the rear derailleur.
Everything else, I can hardly tell the difference, but the crispness you get with an XTR/X.0 derailleur, especially when things get nasty and mucky is worth it for me.
With that said though, I go in know that this extra performance comes as a price… Both out of my wallet, and in longevity (as I find the higher end a part is the shorter it’s lifespan)
Depends what you’re looking for, but I guess unless you’re racing, XT/X.9 is way more than reasonable for most.
@ Ken
Thanks for your input! In your situation (racing) the extra can be justified.
*pfffft*
All rear derailleurs are overrated.
its not about value its about BLING !!;-)
and,if im not mistaken,this years XT was last years XTR anyway.Not sure how the sram compares.
@ Mark
pretty much the same deal Mark. And from what I am hearing (and my limited experience with) that SLX package is pretty sweet too.
I agree 100%. Been completely happy with XT and 9.0 stuff.
What bugs me is the complete bikes sold with high end derailleurs and mid-level shifters. You really can tell a difference in the feel of the different level shifters.
I am proud to say I have never splurged on an XTR front derailleur. Rear, yes, but I cannot find a way to justify the expense for the front.
thanks mann I had this discussion a few years ago when I got my 8500 with the XT. And same answers get good wheels for weight savings. I however am limited on this as I am 205 lbs and push the recommend limits of high end non cheap wheels. Maybe that would be a good review , Wheels /bike builds for the plus 200 crowd. anywhere from pedals to bottom brackets, wheels, girlfriends,high paying jobs where you can ride all day, good fishing spots, best pizza…
I actually hang back from the bleeding edge a little more – I still like the reliability of an 8 speed, so I went with X-7 components since that was as high as I could go at the time w/o jumping to 9.
Also consider that every time XTR and XO get better so does the rest of the line. So this years XT or X9 is as good or better than XTR or XO of a couple of years ago, just without the carbon bling factor. And I totally agree with the assessment of where money is best spent on the bike upgrades.
I was thinking that if shimano were up to it I’d be willing to donate my time racing with top end bike with full xtr this year then the same bike next year with same bike an d full xt. Just trying to help
@ Jason
Great idea! We can start a full XTR team just for that purpose!
I run X.0 on my my V10 and i love it! Also the carbon XTR on my XC bike, i just bought a SLX deralieur(sp) and can’t wait to see how it runs, i think SLX was a great move by Shimano.
I completely agree. The SLX package is supposed to be pretty smooth…but more durable than XT. Let me know what you end up thinking about it.
I’ll wait by the mail box for delivery.
good points. I don’t think XTR and XT used to be so similar in performance. In the past 5 years, that’s certainly changed.
@ Yasser
I 100% agree with you. It is a great time to be a mountain biker as the technology and performance has improved rapidly.
I run only XO drivetrain. Wish they would make a better front D so in the mean time XTR. Is it worth it at retail -no, shop cost -yes.
Damn and i have X0, heheheheh.
But it’s true what they are saying.
Like the way he thinks, I gave up on XTR and XO years ago and yes I have very nice wheelsets on all my bikes.
Personally I feel like the best place to spend the money is on a wheel set, then frame, then components. I tend to keep wheels longer than frames, which I keep longer than components.
The law of diminishing returns governs all of those things though – you wheels can only feel so good, and you frame can only be so light and stiff, etc. before the difference is negligible.
Right now I have a mix of XT and XTR components on the primary ride — the difference between the two is very small anymore. They both shift very well and quickly (although since I put the xtr rear derailleur on I have yet to experience any chainsuck, but that may be the new chain too).
I have a wheel set from Dave (http://www.speeddream.com/mountain_disc.php) that outperforms any others I have had — makes a big difference and real lightweight. But, I’ve said it before (and I say it again) the best way to reduce the weight on your bike is usually by taking it off of your own ass.
A high quality, hand-built wheelset can make all the difference in the world. Even some of the best frames out there perform poorly under bad wheels. People tend to forget that your wheels are your only contact with the ground.
What would you say about specs like saint… worth it or just a overkill buy. This is more of a AM/FR/DH question but I’m just curious.
@ Andrew
The Saint group is purpose built for FR/DH so I can see the justification there. If there were multiple lines to that group…then things may be different.
Spot on in regard to where to spend the money. High end rear D doesn’t hurt ya but $ into a better wheel set is a definite improvement. Same theory as a good fork upgrade. Money well spent.
Interesting article. I would agree that money on wheels is a better spend, but then again, if you have the wrong frame, none of it matters. What I do not like about the article is putting SRAM and Shimano in the same bucket. Yes, they do have versions based on price that mostly come with minor weight and blink improvements along the way. However, I think Shimano has goofed where I believe SRAM has proven the value. I have XO, X.9, XTR and XT. I have been through most of the versions of LX and XT during my 20 years of mtn biking. I have found that SRAM XO is not just bling. It is faster, lighter and rugged. XTR however is lighter, but is not much more than bling (even worse in some cases than XT). X.9 is good agreed, but XO is better. SRAM simply has more value in the RD and shifter arena than Shimano IMHO and the choice should be between XTR vs XO or XT vs X.9.
I have found SRAM to be more bullet proof on the trail requiring less need for adjustment over time.
I also like the design of the SRAM front paddle (closest to the front wheel) on the shifter over Shimano’s. When Shimano went to the dual direction paddle…its not as hand placement friendly. The SRAM paddle is right where I want it.
It’s not an issue on single speeds
Get back to basics, Enough said,
LOL…I have a rigid ss just for that reason! Keeps me honest.
i too am saving up for a good set of wheels. currently use XTs and have to frequently have the bearins greased and serviced. no complaints but am looking at a red metal 1 or hope pro2 + DT Swiss rim set-up.
recently purchased an X9 set but the shifters kept on getting stuck after only 2 mos. of riding. and we usually ride on light to moderate terrain. with a couple of my riding buddies sharing the same experience in the past, decided to return them and trade up to the X0. will wait and see how they perform…
Ah! When you move off of XT hubs…you will never go back. It is one of those ignorance is bliss things…you don’t know what you are truly missing out on until you switch.
So, I am trying to do a custom wheel set and am having a difficult time researching hubs. Can you please help me with the top end, my son dosen’t REALLY need to go to college hub, the almost top end, we can eat ramen noodles for a couple of months and the middle of the road not xtr from shimano hub? I would really appreciate a little input from you guys. Thanks
Paddy D
Take a look at the Hope Pro II hubs. The engagement is not at the level of the really high end (Chris King, I9, etc.) but they are high quality hubs that make for a great wheelset. If you want to drop a little bit more coin…check out the Hadleys. 72 point engagement.
Sweet thanks for the help…
Something I forgot to add to my previous query. I am running a 26 v-brake set up. Does the Hope II hubs come in a non-disc friendly set-up? Should’ve mentioned this before. Thanks guys…
I’m a huge SRAM fan and I think the x9 performs like the xo minus the carbon cage, it’s a matter of grams less weight but huge price difference better stick to x9 for the same performance and a bang for the buck! +1 for x9!!
I have been saying that for awhile too. Add to that…the aluminum cage of the X.9 is a lot less prone to breaking. Why do you think they went to an aluminum backing with carbon outers on the ’09’s? Too many breaking on the trail…
if you want to have some ‘pro’ componets from top level groups in your bike buy… shifters. Rear derailleurs are expensive, and you can’t FEEL if they works better. And shifters – you touch them many times, everytime you ride your bike, and you can feel the difference between “they works good” and “they works great”
sorry for my english, and greetings from poland
I will agree that they have a better feel to them on the bike (the shifters). It also seems that the price gap on the shifters is not as high as the RD’s. Maybe that is because they are out of eyesight in most cases.
Thanks for the article.
Actually I have the same question about Thomson components. I don’t get it. I mean they look nice, and I understand the strength issue, but we’re talking about components with zero moving parts. And most people could ride the same seatpost or stem for their entire life without breaking it.
Enlighten me.
When it comes to stem and seatpost decisions…stiffness plays a huge factor for me. I find that the Thomson products are stiffer on the bike making them more predictable.
From an aesthetics standpoint…they look just like the day you bought them 8 years down the road. While I love the adjustment on the Race Face posts…they look old after one day on the trail because I move the seatpost all the way down on dh sections. This wears off the logo almost instantly.
Interesting article.
Have just gone to X9 RDR with X9 shifters. Previous XT. Am looking forward to see how the sram works.
Now how about a comparison of forks….. what of the various shades between reba/sid/fox rl100 etc etc. (My son keeps drooling over sids…)
Unless he is going to be a serious XC racer…steer him away from the SID. The Reba is a much better fork for regular riding. The SID is a purpose built component that is intended for primarily xc racing.
my first post
I have x0 rear d. but older version with aluminum cage (not carbon) and I like it soo much. in fact complete sram’s 1:1 ratio thing is in my opinion superb comparing to shimano’s 1:2.
On the other hand I have x9 shifters since x0 are to pricey (more than double)… although I heard here and there that shifting is better with them, meaning that lever travel is a bit shorter, and by that shifting sensation is snappier… I’d like to try them anyway.
On the other hand everytime xtr/xt discussion is started I remember an article in some old national geographic bout several guys who rode across the alaska (or something like that), and they all had old-school black shimano lx components… so… you never know whats best until you test it really hard.
that’s the reason why I still ride my cnc machined avid ultimate v-brakes… they work sooo good… and I don’t feel like changing them soon…
bottom line… x0 is good, maybe just a bit better then x9. xt is better than xtr. slx is super good (my girl has it). only “bad” thing is heavy drive train…
huh… enough… I could write about bike all night long..
respect to all of you
dj.
I agree with the above, although I often get sucked into trying the latest and greatest. As far as SRAM stuff goes – I bought a Rocky Mountain Element TSC in 2000. It came with SRAM 9.0 SL stuff on it. This is about a year or two before they came out with XO. I am still riding that bike and have done 8 Leadville 100s on that drivetrain and it still works beautifully. I just ordered an new Pivot Mach 429 and spec’s it with XO. I found that it is about $200 cheaper if you run it with the Gripshift version instead of the triggers. I love the Gripshift setup, so I jumped on that. If you do not have a major need for triggers, it is a great way to get their top of the line stuff for a lot less $. It made the gap between X9 and XO a lot smaller. FWIW, the SRAM front derailleurs are not that great and I would recommend running an XT or even LX as not much has changed up front in 15 years.
and why would expensive wheels be better than average ones?
Stiffness only depends on the amount of steel in the spokes (and a bit on how well the wheel is spoked and tensioned, bu that's for free).
Weight differs hardly if you choose the right rims.
I believe in buying a lot of tires to finf the ones for your style, they make the difference in stability, light ride etc..
Durability, engagement, stiffness largely depends on the builder – machine built vs. quality wheel builder, maintenance (again…quality built wheels need truing less often)
Durability, engagement, stiffness largely depends on the builder – machine built vs. quality wheel builder, maintenance (again…quality built wheels need truing less often)
How much would you say a high end wheelset should cost? I guess what I’m asking is what is considered mid or high-end?
350.00 and up would be a reasonable estimate.
I’ve heard there is a noticeable difference between the xt and the xtr rapidfire shifters. Would you consider this a true statement?
yes XTR shifters w/any shimano RD are way better than the XT ot SLX etc…I love the triple shift option and crisp shift action once you have them you’ll never go back, and remember you dont have to have XTR RD or FD to make it work all you need is the shifters